And the Rock Cried Out, No Hiding Place

I have given the AtheismGREEN more thought over the past few weeks, and it has given me a different perspective on Atheism+

I understand more and more now that Atheism+ is a secular social justice group that just happens to have the word atheism in the name, but by and large, it has very little to do with atheism or skepticism and has more to do with woman's and gay's rights.

I support the rights of all humans beings, so in that respect I do not oppose them. What I do have some issues with are with the methods they employ to achieve the goal of equality.

So to that end, I believe I will leave Atheism+ alone for now.

Unless something changes in the future, I expect this post to be my final post about Atheism+

Atheism Green Continued

I have been giving Atheism Green more thought, and I believe I have thought of why environmental causes could be tied to atheism.

Many religious people believe a judgement day is coming, and on that day God will judge the world and destroy it in the process, save for the believers.

If you really do believe we are in end times, then why would you care the planet is getting warmer?

In fact, some may believe that climate change is part of Gods plan to end the world, so why fight Gods plan?

If people can blame religious attitudes for sexism against women, can people also blame religious attitudes for the continued rejection of climate change?

Atheism Green

I have had a recent idea, and I would like to use this blog post to flush it out.

Many people criticize Atheism+ for adding causes to atheism that are unrelated to atheism, and this gave me an idea.

How would people react to Atheism Green?

Atheism Green could go something like this:

It's Atheism, but Green:

• Atheism plus we fight climate change.
• Atheism plus we support renewable energy.
• Atheism plus we protest pollution.
• Atheism plus we fight deforestation and poaching.
• Atheism plus we use critical thinking and skepticism.

Atheism Green can speak out against Carbon Culture

Carbon culture - a concept used to describe a culture in which fossil fuel burning and hydrocarbon use are common and in which prevalent attitudes, norms, practices, and media normalize, excuse, tolerate, or even condone the use of gas, coal, or oil as fuel.

Atheism Green can speak out against Carbon Privilege

Carbon Privilege - the ability to burn or otherwise use fossil fuels in daily life without the need to suffer the negative side effects of the burning of said fossil fuels. 

Atheism Green can work together to reduce our Carbon Footprint

Carbon Footprint - the total sets of greenhouse gas emissions caused by an organization, event, product or person. 

Atheism Green can then work to get atheism organizations and atheist conferences to use more renewable energy and to reduce the carbon footprint involved.

Atheism Green can work to have conference polices drafted that make is easier for attendees and staff to reduce their carbon footprint.

Atheism Green can start a campaign to have big name atheist speakers stop using jets and other transportation that wastes carbon

So Now What?

How would the wider atheist community take to Atheism Green?

How would an atheist feel to be labeled a Carbonist?

Carbonist - adjective for a person who isn't working towards or currently isn't Carbon Neutral

Carbon Neutral - having a net zero carbon footprint

I think this thought experiment needs more work to fully flush out, but I do not feel it is without merit.

Actions Speak Louder Then Words

I was reading the NeuroLogica Blog today when I noticed something different

Here is what NeuroLogica Blog looked like today NeuroLogica Blog (Sept 6th 2013)

Here is what NeuroLogica Blog looked like on August 2nd NeuroLogica Blog (Aug 2nd 2013)

The relevant part is on the right hand side, under the heading General Science Blogs

Here is how it looked on August 2nd

Here is how it looks today

It appears that between August 2nd and today, Pharyngula was removed as a General Science Blog

I think this small act by Dr. Novella speaks louder then anything else said about Pharyngula or PZ Myers to date.

Echo Chambers

I recently listened to The Skeptics’ Guide to the Universe Podcast #424 and Steven Novella had a nice interview with Cara Santa Maria. During the interview, at about the 1 hour mark, the topic of echo chambers came up, and what Dr. Novella had to say really struck a cord with me.

He talked of how anti-vaxxers will make websites and forums where the only info you receive is from other anti-vaxxers, which only re-enforces their beliefs about the dangers of vaccines, and if you disagree, you are a troll.

Dr. Novella said that he does not think atheism will turn into an echo chamber as long as we keep these 2 guidelines .

1) Focus on the process, not the conclusion 

2) Seek out the other side and listen to what they have to say

I have to agree with both these guidelines, they work as a safe guard against the echo chamber.

This did get me thinking about another topic, namely Atheism+

I do not believe Atheism+ follows these 2 guidelines, they seem to know what the conclusion is (feminism and social justice) and they do not seek out the other side to listen to what they have to say. In fact, they go to great lengths to ignore the other side.

They build forums that are "safe spaces" and what do they mean by safe space? Let me quote the forum for you

Atheism Plus is a collection of like-minded people using safe spaces to hash out ideas. There is no dogma, just a general consensus among participants that the particular social justice issues it focuses on are important to them. 

There are no membership requirements beyond a commitment to taking seriously the need to have and maintain spaces where social justice issues can be discussed by atheists without interference from those opposed to the whole endeavor.

From this simple paragraph, you can see that they focus on the general consensus among themselves, they do not focus on the process at all, the process has finished and the general consensus will not be questioned.

You can also see that they do not seek out the other side, they wish to talk among themselves without interference from anyone with an opposing view.

If that isn't an echo chamber, I don't know what is.

What is Truth and what is God?

I do know that some people do look down on Science Fiction as a genre, but I find this speech compelling.

Agnosticism, a way appease everyone and not have to argue, or a valid point of view?

I am conflicted when it comes to Agnosticism. Wikipedia defines Agnosticism as the philosophical position stating that the world is unknowable and certainty is impossible.

This position is entirely true, and also entirely useless to me.

If one wishes to get pedantic enough, one can state with all honesty that nothing is knowable in the truest sense of the word, but take this to it's logical conclusion and see how it breaks down.

Imagine meeting someone on the street and asking someone what time is it, and they response that they are agnostic about time and are not sure time is real or not so they therefore cannot give you an answer with absolute certainty. I press them farther and say I don't need an answer with absolute certainty, just tell me what time you believe it is, and they reply they cannot tell me with certainty so therefore they have no opinion one way of the other.

I hope to an outside observer you can see how frustrating this can be, and this is how I feel when someone claims to be an agnostic.

Saying you are an agnostic is making a factual statement about how knowable the universe is.

Saying your an atheist is making an opinion statement that the claims about the existence of god made by others are found lacking and not credible.

Unless you are some kind of uncaring robot, you will have an opinion about the existence of god no matter how loudly you proclaim agnosticism, and your actions speak louder then your words.

Do you actively go to a church or temple or mosque to worship?

Do you pray?

Do you live your life by the rules written in a holy book?

If it walks like an atheist, talks like an atheist, and doesn't worship like an atheist, why do we call it anything else besides atheist?

I can think of a few reasons why people would shun the atheist label and self identify as agnostic, but they are all practical reasons that make dealing with theists easier, and that feels intellectually hollow to me.

I'm not here to tell people that they can't call themselves agnostic, but I just wanted it know that, to me, hearing someone self label as agnostic instead of atheist is on par with a christian claiming to be non-religious because they have a relationship with god instead and that christianity is a philosophy instead of a religion.

I could be completely wrong about this topic, but at least I'm willing to state my opinion.